Thank you, David. As a Northern Board member, I am touched and moved by your analysis of the past year. And I am so grateful for your commitment to the process. Let's continue to pray that Northern can be a beacon, an example of how God can work though difficult times, a demonstration of the surprising possibilities when an institution commits to following Christ's example.
Last week, Justin Charles (@JMacArthurC), self described as “one of 3 students and alumni who organized a collective outcry of students and alumni to oust the former President,” challenged some things on this substack post on his Twitter feed, now known as X. It was the busiest week in Northern’s calendar, end of quarter, intensives, public lectures, commencement, grading, etc. so I couldn’t respond to it with any real thought until today. I promised Justin on Twitter that I’d give an honest response this week, here in the comments of the post he is criticizing. So here goes.
1.)Justin claimed “what Fitch has done is denounce the victims desperately advocating for themselves.”
I believe Justin thinks I’m taking shots at those who spoke to Julie Roys report? He links to the Julie Roys post in the tweet. But I did not mean to suggest that all who speak regarding inside conflict to Julie Roys, or speak to public websites on inside conflict, are all wrong. especially victims of the conflict. Quite the contrary. What I did was suggest some guidelines for when such public posts revealing abuse internal to an organization are appropriate. To my knowledge, those lines were NOT crossed in the Julie Roys posts about Northern Seminary? At least by the actual victims when they spoke. I did not intend to cast aspersion on the victims
The guideline I encouraged was, when such posts happen, that they “publish the voices of the victims, or the voices that give voice to the victims because they have actually listened to the victims.” Let these posts not be by outsiders who know little or nothing about the internal dynamics inside the conflict, who then speak FOR the victims, instead of WITH the victims. I ask Justin, how does this, in Justin’s words, “denounce the victims?” Again, If I’ve missed something here, I’m most willing to hear. Just correct me in the comments? I welcome it.
I also gave three questions that can help all of us further in discerning whether critiques meet this guideline?. To those critiquing the institution, A.) Where were you when this abuse was happening? (in other words do you actually have first hand understanding of what was happening?) B.) Have you actually sat and listened to the victims? (if so – staff?, administration?, students? Which one?), and C.)what would you do differently than the current leadership? In this post, I have tried to follow these guidelines, as one who sent the letters of the victims to the chair of the board. On the three questions. I was there. These past twelve months, I have listened (and have continued to listen) to staff/administration throughout this ordeal, and any others who have been victims,, as best I could. I have watched how this whole process has been led step by step by our leadership and I find it exemplary, even if not perfect. In all of this I’ve tried to honor the victims, not speak for them.
Again, I’m giving the best take on this that I can, with as much integrity as I can, from one who has been on campus with many of the victims, four to five days a week, not just these past months, but for several years. If I have missed something, or misrepresented something, please feel free to comment below. I shall listen carefully and take it seriously.
2.)Justin said “Fitch has laid claim to something apparently happening at Northern that those like myself who still communicate with the victims know nothing about. No lament, no restitution, no willingness to place truth over the institution.”
This is one of the reasons why I decided to tell my first hand account of what I have seen these past eighteen months. But I'm not omnipresent. I haven't been with everyone at al times. And so I would like to know which victims Justin is talking to, because I could be wrong. No need to name names. I’m just asking, is he talking with current staff, current administration, those who have stayed and persisted through the unraveling of the organizational mess of Northern these past several months. Among the board, I have witnessed unparalleled lament, humble repentance by the Board, attempts at restitution. Yes, there are still things being worked out inter-relationally, and when that hasn’t been possible, after many tries, legally. And although legal restrictions may prevent some officers from saying some things publicly, I believe the institution is being cared for, but NOT being placed over truth. It's not perfect, but it's filled with integrity. Has Justin spent time on campus and talked with the staff as to what they have gone through and witnessed these past months? If so, it’s possible we’re getting mixed messages. But if you’re talking from afar? this to me is a problem. It is the root core problem of the way conflicts and justice are engaged by evangelicals today, from afar, not among, from power over, instead of power with.
3.)Justin said “He (Fitch) didn’t tell you about the board meeting with the victims in the fall in an unrecorded Zoom meeting in which there was no plan, no apology, no acknowledgment of what must be done to make things right. That there were victims in that meeting telling them of their failures.”
This is baffling to me? Because I said in the post “She (the acting president) set up places of conversation where the board, the staff, the faculty, and students could all be in the same room, often but not always a zoom room. Certain dysfunctions materialized. Behavior that borderlined on pathological was revealed. All in all it was messy, conflictual, at times frustrating and at times terrifying. But this is what we needed.” Is this not a reference to a meeting like Justin refers to?
There was more than one meeting that could be described like this, including the meeting Justin is probably talking about. I’m not trying to hide that these meetings happened. Indeed, I’m actually saying that they did happen, and that it was important that they happened. He’s right, there was no ready-made package of judgements, apologies, and plan to make things right, put forth by the leadership. In my opinion, the first step towards Tov is to listen, where pathologies can be revealed. This listening happened at Northern multiple times. And out of that process people saw things they couldn’t unsee, and from there further discussions and meetings happened that were equally as messy happened. The acting president did not just come in and dictate. Space was made for the Holy Spirit to reveal. After one of these meetings, I went and talked personally with some of the aggressors, some of the victims, and listened more. And this led to movement, and decisions, and eventual changes, like resignations etc. If the acting new administration had just come in to dictate, I suggest very little would have been accomplished for the Kingdom. It was all a lesson in how God works to heal an institution.
4.) Justin said “the fact that this blog was written is evidence that toxicity still remains there. If what was written by Fitch was actually happening…we’d see the evidence and it wouldn’t have to be written.”
I wrote the substack post because I believe that my observations needed to be recorded for people to know the good things happening. I don’t know what Justin would count as “evidence” of these good things happening, but the morale on campus among the staff and administration is transformationally positive. The amazing students, the stunning learning going on, the Commencement, all speak to the powerful work of the Holy Spirit on Campus.
5.) Justin said “The person who likes to use his platform to give underhanded potshots at his peers isn’t going to answer any of us directly. The screenshot below is a reference to Scot McKnight, but Fitch didn’t have the courage to speak plainly.”
As I said, last week was busy. It took some time to get to this and my apologies. The words in the screen shot from the post, that Justin refers to, were my words “not as someone who has a legacy to preserve (truth is I could have protected any legacy I do have much better by making a show of leaving, accusing the place of being “toxic”…). The words in the screen shot were meant more generally. There are more than a few people, who from afar, without being on campus, and seeing what’s going on, have described Northern Seminary as a “toxic” culture. Admittedly, Scot was one of them. But I want to honour Scot’s legacy at Northern and all he gave to Northern. So all I’ll say here is that I know of no one on the current 6 regular remaining faculty, and no one working among the current staff who agree with Scot’s characterizing of Northern’s current culture as “toxic.” And if there are any CURRENT staff/administrators/faculty who disagree, I invite you to post in the comments. Because I am sure the current state of Northern is not perfect. There is more work to be done, it is ongoing as we speak. We need to continue to listen to one another. There is always room for more growth.
I view this whole exercise, in putting the original post out, and responding to Justin’s accusations, as an exercise in showing how the healing of an institution can both happen, and be messy. It shows how God can work via God’s power to heal through listening, the practices of reconciliation, and non violent presence. It shows how change takes time, patience and presence. It shows how moves forward can sometimes be imperfect because of the lack of cooperation of everybody in God’s work. And yet this is good work and somehow God can work in all our cultures, if we’ll allow Him space. I praise God for what God has done in Jesus by the Spirit to heal this broken institution Northern Seminary.
Thanks, Fitch. This is clear and lucid and helpful. Specifically, so glad you urge folks who want to register complaints and criticisms to first ask themselves the three questions you pose in their behalf, and if they WEREN'T witness to whatever they're criticizing, to just keep quiet and stay out of the mess, lest they make it worse. Which advice I will now apply, and sign out !
That is a good word for these challenging times in our Evangelical circles.
Thank you, David. As a Northern Board member, I am touched and moved by your analysis of the past year. And I am so grateful for your commitment to the process. Let's continue to pray that Northern can be a beacon, an example of how God can work though difficult times, a demonstration of the surprising possibilities when an institution commits to following Christ's example.
Thank you David for the honest , humble and clear approach evident in your article. Healing is hard, hard work.
This sounds like the introduction to a operation's manual. I'm going to send it to everyone I know.
MY RESPONSE TO Justin Charles (@JMacArthurC)
Last week, Justin Charles (@JMacArthurC), self described as “one of 3 students and alumni who organized a collective outcry of students and alumni to oust the former President,” challenged some things on this substack post on his Twitter feed, now known as X. It was the busiest week in Northern’s calendar, end of quarter, intensives, public lectures, commencement, grading, etc. so I couldn’t respond to it with any real thought until today. I promised Justin on Twitter that I’d give an honest response this week, here in the comments of the post he is criticizing. So here goes.
1.)Justin claimed “what Fitch has done is denounce the victims desperately advocating for themselves.”
I believe Justin thinks I’m taking shots at those who spoke to Julie Roys report? He links to the Julie Roys post in the tweet. But I did not mean to suggest that all who speak regarding inside conflict to Julie Roys, or speak to public websites on inside conflict, are all wrong. especially victims of the conflict. Quite the contrary. What I did was suggest some guidelines for when such public posts revealing abuse internal to an organization are appropriate. To my knowledge, those lines were NOT crossed in the Julie Roys posts about Northern Seminary? At least by the actual victims when they spoke. I did not intend to cast aspersion on the victims
The guideline I encouraged was, when such posts happen, that they “publish the voices of the victims, or the voices that give voice to the victims because they have actually listened to the victims.” Let these posts not be by outsiders who know little or nothing about the internal dynamics inside the conflict, who then speak FOR the victims, instead of WITH the victims. I ask Justin, how does this, in Justin’s words, “denounce the victims?” Again, If I’ve missed something here, I’m most willing to hear. Just correct me in the comments? I welcome it.
I also gave three questions that can help all of us further in discerning whether critiques meet this guideline?. To those critiquing the institution, A.) Where were you when this abuse was happening? (in other words do you actually have first hand understanding of what was happening?) B.) Have you actually sat and listened to the victims? (if so – staff?, administration?, students? Which one?), and C.)what would you do differently than the current leadership? In this post, I have tried to follow these guidelines, as one who sent the letters of the victims to the chair of the board. On the three questions. I was there. These past twelve months, I have listened (and have continued to listen) to staff/administration throughout this ordeal, and any others who have been victims,, as best I could. I have watched how this whole process has been led step by step by our leadership and I find it exemplary, even if not perfect. In all of this I’ve tried to honor the victims, not speak for them.
Again, I’m giving the best take on this that I can, with as much integrity as I can, from one who has been on campus with many of the victims, four to five days a week, not just these past months, but for several years. If I have missed something, or misrepresented something, please feel free to comment below. I shall listen carefully and take it seriously.
2.)Justin said “Fitch has laid claim to something apparently happening at Northern that those like myself who still communicate with the victims know nothing about. No lament, no restitution, no willingness to place truth over the institution.”
This is one of the reasons why I decided to tell my first hand account of what I have seen these past eighteen months. But I'm not omnipresent. I haven't been with everyone at al times. And so I would like to know which victims Justin is talking to, because I could be wrong. No need to name names. I’m just asking, is he talking with current staff, current administration, those who have stayed and persisted through the unraveling of the organizational mess of Northern these past several months. Among the board, I have witnessed unparalleled lament, humble repentance by the Board, attempts at restitution. Yes, there are still things being worked out inter-relationally, and when that hasn’t been possible, after many tries, legally. And although legal restrictions may prevent some officers from saying some things publicly, I believe the institution is being cared for, but NOT being placed over truth. It's not perfect, but it's filled with integrity. Has Justin spent time on campus and talked with the staff as to what they have gone through and witnessed these past months? If so, it’s possible we’re getting mixed messages. But if you’re talking from afar? this to me is a problem. It is the root core problem of the way conflicts and justice are engaged by evangelicals today, from afar, not among, from power over, instead of power with.
3.)Justin said “He (Fitch) didn’t tell you about the board meeting with the victims in the fall in an unrecorded Zoom meeting in which there was no plan, no apology, no acknowledgment of what must be done to make things right. That there were victims in that meeting telling them of their failures.”
This is baffling to me? Because I said in the post “She (the acting president) set up places of conversation where the board, the staff, the faculty, and students could all be in the same room, often but not always a zoom room. Certain dysfunctions materialized. Behavior that borderlined on pathological was revealed. All in all it was messy, conflictual, at times frustrating and at times terrifying. But this is what we needed.” Is this not a reference to a meeting like Justin refers to?
There was more than one meeting that could be described like this, including the meeting Justin is probably talking about. I’m not trying to hide that these meetings happened. Indeed, I’m actually saying that they did happen, and that it was important that they happened. He’s right, there was no ready-made package of judgements, apologies, and plan to make things right, put forth by the leadership. In my opinion, the first step towards Tov is to listen, where pathologies can be revealed. This listening happened at Northern multiple times. And out of that process people saw things they couldn’t unsee, and from there further discussions and meetings happened that were equally as messy happened. The acting president did not just come in and dictate. Space was made for the Holy Spirit to reveal. After one of these meetings, I went and talked personally with some of the aggressors, some of the victims, and listened more. And this led to movement, and decisions, and eventual changes, like resignations etc. If the acting new administration had just come in to dictate, I suggest very little would have been accomplished for the Kingdom. It was all a lesson in how God works to heal an institution.
4.) Justin said “the fact that this blog was written is evidence that toxicity still remains there. If what was written by Fitch was actually happening…we’d see the evidence and it wouldn’t have to be written.”
I wrote the substack post because I believe that my observations needed to be recorded for people to know the good things happening. I don’t know what Justin would count as “evidence” of these good things happening, but the morale on campus among the staff and administration is transformationally positive. The amazing students, the stunning learning going on, the Commencement, all speak to the powerful work of the Holy Spirit on Campus.
5.) Justin said “The person who likes to use his platform to give underhanded potshots at his peers isn’t going to answer any of us directly. The screenshot below is a reference to Scot McKnight, but Fitch didn’t have the courage to speak plainly.”
As I said, last week was busy. It took some time to get to this and my apologies. The words in the screen shot from the post, that Justin refers to, were my words “not as someone who has a legacy to preserve (truth is I could have protected any legacy I do have much better by making a show of leaving, accusing the place of being “toxic”…). The words in the screen shot were meant more generally. There are more than a few people, who from afar, without being on campus, and seeing what’s going on, have described Northern Seminary as a “toxic” culture. Admittedly, Scot was one of them. But I want to honour Scot’s legacy at Northern and all he gave to Northern. So all I’ll say here is that I know of no one on the current 6 regular remaining faculty, and no one working among the current staff who agree with Scot’s characterizing of Northern’s current culture as “toxic.” And if there are any CURRENT staff/administrators/faculty who disagree, I invite you to post in the comments. Because I am sure the current state of Northern is not perfect. There is more work to be done, it is ongoing as we speak. We need to continue to listen to one another. There is always room for more growth.
I view this whole exercise, in putting the original post out, and responding to Justin’s accusations, as an exercise in showing how the healing of an institution can both happen, and be messy. It shows how God can work via God’s power to heal through listening, the practices of reconciliation, and non violent presence. It shows how change takes time, patience and presence. It shows how moves forward can sometimes be imperfect because of the lack of cooperation of everybody in God’s work. And yet this is good work and somehow God can work in all our cultures, if we’ll allow Him space. I praise God for what God has done in Jesus by the Spirit to heal this broken institution Northern Seminary.
David Fitch (read my Reckoning with Power (2024). https://www.amazon.com/Reckoning-Power-Church-Fails-Wrong/dp/1587434156
“Please speak from actual presence or don’t speak at all.” *mic drop*
Excellent article. Thank you for these reflections. I will be saving it to remember for myself and think through as needed in the future.
Thanks, Fitch. This is clear and lucid and helpful. Specifically, so glad you urge folks who want to register complaints and criticisms to first ask themselves the three questions you pose in their behalf, and if they WEREN'T witness to whatever they're criticizing, to just keep quiet and stay out of the mess, lest they make it worse. Which advice I will now apply, and sign out !
An exceptionally helpful read. Thank you.